Have a new UV website to check out

[starglaze]

http://www.rapidshield.com/

I like that it can be rolled or brushed on in any color.  Its for floors but it can probably be used on counter tops to, providing its compatible with our industry lights. 

[starglaze]

I requested a sample from rapidshield but they wanted to know how many jules my UVIII syst.  had.  UVIII would not give me the break down and I forwarded the UVIII email to rapid shield but apparently rapidshield is not interested in sending me a sample.

[BRAOA]

In short Pete... they wanted to know how many watts your curing system is producing, 1 watt is equal to 1 joule. Call me.

[richmann]

Yes, Rapidshield has a counter top product that they just introduced last week at the World of Concrete show.  It's a 2 part system for clear, 3 if you want to add color.  They will not directly provide samples, but might through their distribution network. 

If you would like a professional UV curing system that has been qualified by Rapidshield, please contact me, Rich Mandich 773-202-8058.  You can also contact me regarding dealers for Rapidshield products.

[starglaze]

Richman!  Do you know if it is a roll on product?  If it is spray on, I am not interested.  To nasty for spraying in my books.  Regards from Pete / Starglaze

[richmann]

It is definitely a roll or brush on product!

[tubmaster]

Just received an invite to your website.  I've been refinishing tubs personally since 1979 so have some 30 years of experience I'm willing to share.  I have purchased and used the UV III system which I have put on hold until these products get more experience, development and tuning.  From what I've expereinced so for with them is the UV concept is a great idea with alot of buts.  One of your contributers mentions some fast cure water based systems I'd like to know more about after they have been throughly tested.  Caution is the word for all who want to jump into a "new" system.  I think many of the chemical companies are trying to compete and come up with new ideas, but put them out to us in the "field" before they have been fully developed and proven.  I think this forum is a great idea, a great place where discussions can go on and where we can give each other the answers to help our industry. Best to all.

[starglaze]

Welcome aboard Tubmaster,
     I am with you on the UV technology.  I also have the UV III syst.  So far my experience with them has not been all that great but I still think it is a great concept with lots of potential.  Everything must be Idiot proofed, excuse the terminology.  Always looking for ways to make this business easier not harder.  Regards, Pete / Starglaze

[tubmaster]

Idiot proofed is probably the correct way to put it, but idiots we may be but test pilots should be paid to be such not the other way around.  I kind of feel like I was used as an unpaid test pilot in this uv thing with 3 grand plus in uv equipment sitting idle waiting for the uv products and methods to get on track.  Every uv job I did, and I did 10 of them before calling a halt to the madness, failed.  Not saying this to scare people away, just stating a fact hoping those of you out there that haven't taken uv on yet, will investigate and get the hard facts and training necessary to make it work for you before jumping in.  Here's the facts as I know them from my own experience:

1) Advertised as 100% green and health hazard free.  Fact: In many, including myself, products in the coating causes itching, sore rash.  Clear coatings are especially irritating to the eyes.

2) Systems 50lb weight is a solid 50 lbs that seems more like 500 when your taking it from project to project, but, thats ok, just got to be ready for the added inconvenience it is from doing a solvent based coating system.

3) Added UV protective clothing is also something to be ready to pack around with you, including a recommended UV Shield curtain to keep the lights from hurting your customers eyes, as we all know many are more than curious.

4) Method of heating to thin out the coatings for spraying needs to be addressed.  I purchased a small cubic microwave that works good, some folks use baby bottle warmers or other methods.  Leaving in car to heat up actually  UV cures the material in the bottles and ruins the material.

5) to thickly applied the UV cures the top but not underneath  and you end up with a hard top coat with an wet non sticking undercoat that eventually bubbles up on the customer.

Bottom line, I love the concept and I love the high glass finish, but things have to be considered and products have to be more fine tuned than they are now to get me to endorse the uv system's.  Know they will eventually be out there with lighter and easier to use methods and I really hope it comes sooner than later.  Somethings discussed in the forum sound good and look promising.  I look forward to participating in an exchange of information that will help make us all the best in our profession. 

[SurfaceMedix]

Well said.

[starglaze]

I agree with tub master.
     My experience has been the same but I found out on my 1st professional tub and kit sink that it wasn't yet the way to go. 
    I believe ultimately the best way to go will be a dual cure UV base coat with a wipe on primer and a UV clear coat that can be rolled on.  The dual cure base coat will continue to cure with out the light.  The light will just speed up the curing of the top coat so you can apply the clear.  The beauty of the system is to be able to completely finish the job and fix any problems right then and there and the customer can use it as soon as you leave.
     Here is a little system that works.  Use Midwest's XL primer.  Wait 15 min. then spray on 123 Bullseye.  You can speed up the cure of bullseye with a heat gun, works very well.  Then roll on the UV clear.  I am talking about a horizontal surface but I believe it will work on vertical surface to.  Now I have only tried this on test squares of tile but I can tell you it won't peel or bubble & it looks beautiful.  The draw back is to many steps and time but not that bad really.  I like that bullseye.  great stuff.  You don't need the XL for dry areas.
     Test it on tile and post your results.  XL, Bullseye, UV clear and submersion.  I might add, I gave the tile 7 days to cure before submersion because it takes that long for the bullseye to fully cure.
     But on a counter for example all you would need is the bullseye and the UV clear or bullseye, multspec & UV clear.  Regards.........Pete / Starglaze     

[JasonS]

In agreeance with tubmaster heres a little literature to further more expand on what he is talking about. I read Midwests letter where the claim UV coatings of being 100% solid, non hazardous, as well as safest for your health?? It is statistically proven that you cannot spray 100% solid out of a gun nor does 100% solid smell, unless you cut it with something. The fact that UV coatings are sprayed out of a gun, and has a sweet & sour smell proves it is cut with something to cause that. What causes that you may ask? Acrylate, which is made from an Acrylic Acid. As stated on EPA’s website, “Symptoms of exposure to this compound include irritation of the skin, eyes, respiratory tract, corrosion, burns, and lung damage can also occur. Exposure may also cause coughing, wheezing, laryngitis, shortness of breath, headache, nausea and vomiting. Inhalation may be fatal as a result.” There are a few other disadvantages to using UV cured coatings such as, a high capital cost of equipment, can have yellow color, and coating is limited to thin coats. UV light must be able to “see” the photoinitiators to cure the coating.  As stated in chapter 6 of the cdphe.state.co.us online article, “In some cases, UV technology may not cure thick or opaque colors as thoroughly, reducing adhesion because the coating does not cure through to the substrate surface.” If an uneven curing happens it can lead to de-lamination or otherwise known as “peeling.”  I think Midwest has some great products(a little pricey but good) but I think they just jumped the gun on the UV. Like someone stated on this or another forum on this site every coating supplier(Hawk, Resurface Solutions, Napco, Midwest, Integrity, and Munro) is trying to to create the "New Way" to refinish for a break through on technology. I believe UV can be great but Midwest just had issues with their base coat not adhering. I spoke with Kurt from Resurface Solutions the other day and asked if he was looking into doing UV or something new and he said he already has a waterbase epoxy primer that hes looking to introduce in the field. He has a waterbase urethane topcoat as well but he said the application process isnt as user friendly as he liked so that parts not ready to let loose in the field. I was thinking since his waterbase works really well, I wonder if you could usee that as the base coate and spray the UV on top of that since their UV clear seems to work? I know thats what hes looking into doing by coming up with a UV clear. Does anyone think this process would work? Im going to try and get a sample of his waterbase primer and maybe try this out.

[BRAOA]

Jason,

When Midwest first came out with the UV system, I wrote an article in my blog which you can read here... http://braoa.org/wordpress/2009/599/uv-curable-coatings-for-bathtub-refinishing

In this article, I warned about the possible effects of Acrylic Acid and issues that may arise from the failures that will happen from incomplete cure through. There were a few out there that said "he doesn't know what he's talking about" but, as time went by, seems i was right. I then went on a personal crusade to learn much about the process and between Charlie Foster from Kinloch and I, went forth with a process of epoxy base/UV clear which worked out well. I then wrote another article about that process which you can read here... http://braoa.org/wordpress/2009/697/a-potential-low-voc-uv-bathtub-refinishing-solution

Initially, I used epoxy from Napco for my tests but found that drying time of the base was an issue. I then went forth with a LOW VOC acrylic urethane that was accelerated to dry enough for the application of UV clear in 20 minutes. The acryl/ureth base was perfect as it can be tinted to any color you wish and had very good hiding qualities. I made sure I used a silane adhesion promoter to get my bond between the sub and base. I then went forth on actual projects using this process.

The use of a conventional base and UV clear is a sound process. One of the things I did learn about the application of UV is you really cannot mask off fixtures, especially if you spray. Reason... curing the UV on top of the surface being refinished and the tape makes it very difficult to remove the tape because the UV cures very hard and those areas are almost certain fail points. You could of course remove your masking prior to cure though. Ideally, all fixtures should be removed prior to refinishing with UV.

In answer to your question, yes that process will work.

[JasonS]

Thanks for the quick response! When I was in his office he showed me some tiles that he sprayed with the waterbase epoxy primer and it was super hard. He said that if had to be sprayed in thin coats and that it dried very quickly. Faster than most solvent base primers which is one thing I was suprised about. He also said there was almost no smell and could be 5 feet away when spraying and it cant be smelled. Im excited to try it bc you can wipe off over spray with a wet rag, clean your gun with tap water and the no smell is a huge plus for my customers. It can also be tinted as well to any color and he said that you dont have to worry about it reacting to a coating if the tub had been previously refinished bc with it being waterbase. The topcoat didnt dry as quickly so Im not sure how thats going to work out. Thats why I figured using the primer for my base coat and using the UV clear for the finish.

I know epoxy's yellow over time but if its topped with a UV clear that should keep it from yellowing right?

[BRAOA]

I know epoxy's yellow over time but if its topped with a UV clear that should keep it from yellowing right?

Not necessarily, but, UV inhibitors can be added. This was a topic that Charlie and I discussed, mainly immediate yellowing from the UV exposure from the lamp itself. My initial test with the epoxy base yielded no initial yellowing from the UV exposure. This of course was with a solvent based product. This does not mean it will not yellow over time but with the addition of UV inhibitors, you can surely decrease the time it will take to yellow, perhaps by years.